OK, time to take this one on.
First of all, let's get a bit of perspective going. The last episode of Doctor Who was watched by 10 million people. My blog gets about 150-200 readers a day, mostly the same people every day, with a bit of a peak after an episode of Doctor Who, but only a small peak - say up to 100 extra readers. But obviously a few more find it over time. So even if you think eventually 1000 people might read one of my reviews - and that is being generous - we are talking about 0.01pc of people who watch Doctor Who. It's practically a pub conversation. And of course, of those, many will disagree with my views.
Also, I do like Doctor Who and I do write positively about it. Looking back over my reviews of this season, eight were broadly positive and five were broadly negative, with a bit of a grey area in both cases, as there were quite a few middling ones this time round. So overall I liked most of them. To put that in a bit more context, over the four seasons of Who, this has come third as far as I am concerned - I liked season 2 best, then season 1, then season 4 and lastly Season 3. And even so, Season 3 had my favourite episodes of all time in them: the 'Family of Blood' two-parter. So I do not 'not like Doctor Who' and I am not going to stop watching. Why would I? I don't know if it's going to be a bad episode until it's over. Or a good one - I didn't think much of 'The Stolen Earth' until the last five minutes, and there's no way I'd have wanted to miss that.
One of the things that makes Doctor Who fun to write about is that it's such a mixed bag. It can be so good and so bad that it's hard to believe that each episode goes past the same exec producers. I've worked in TV myself and I know it can be bloody hard to get things in, on time, and well-made, but Doctor Who is one of the most watched, highest budgeted programmes on television. It's not just a kids programme, it's a BBC flagship show and it should be good. So it's legitimate to point out when it isn't. One of the things that makes Russell T Davies fun to write about is that the work he does is also such a mixed bag. Casanova is one of my all-time favourite dramas, and not just because of the presence of lovely David Tennant. Queer as Folk was exceptional. Loads of his episodes of Doctor Who have been brilliant - notably Midnight, this season, which got a rave from me. I am also, as far as I know, the only person alive who liked the Cat Nuns. But that doesn't make this season finale any better. I review Doctor Who because there is a lot to say about it, and because, judging by my comments, people like reading my reviews and discussing their own - often opposing - views. These are good reasons to write reviews. I'm sorry that I don't like every episode. But I just don't.
It's never fun getting a bad review. I should know, I've had them myself. If you want to read some, try this one, which describes one of my sentences as "surely one of the clunkiest published sentences of the year", or this one which says that my book is "so bad... it's the kind of book that could be made into the kind of movie someone might accidentally watch on an airplane" or indeed this one, in the New York Times of all places - circulation a bit more than 1000 - which says that my book is "so conventionally constructed that it suggests the help of fiction-writing software". I don't enjoy reading this kind of thing, but I do read it, and I put up with it, for two reasons: 1. My book is out there. I have put it in the public domain, and people are entitled to say what they like about it. And 2. It is impossible to make a piece of work that everybody will like. Not possible. It has never happened to anyone, and never will.
So I will carry on watching Doctor Who and I will carry on reviewing it for as long as I enjoy watching it most of the time and I enjoy writing about it. I've been told that if I don't like Doctor Who, I don't have to watch it. The same goes for my reviews. If you don't like reading them, nobody is forcing you to. On the other hand, if you like reading them because you hate them so very much and enjoy coming onto my blog to slag them off in the comments, don't start telling me what I should or shouldn't write about, because you leave yourself open to accusations of hypocrisy.
However, I do accept certain things. It is easier to write a bad review than a good review, mainly because bad reviews are funnier. There's definitely a risk of being vicious just for effect. That's something to watch for, and in future I will. Also, when I am watching something with a view to reviewing it, I do have my critical mind on, which means that I don't just relax and lose myself into it, I am looking for points to raise, in favour and against. So that can go against the spirit of just enjoying it. I'll look out for that too. And there is always the risk of slipping from attacking the product to attacking the person, which I do try to avoid, though Russell T Davies might feel entitled to disagree. (Ah, Russell, still my number one choice for adapting Gods Behaving Badly for TV. The chances of that are receeding into the distance at quite some rate, I imagine, after all this.)
Ultimately, if I am going to review, I am going to write bad reviews. If I don't enjoy something, I am going to say so, I am going to say why, and I am going to do it in a way that I hope others will find entertaining. I am not seeking out the people who made the work to attack them directly, I am doing it here, on my own site, which people can choose to read or ignore as they wish. And there is a comments facility so that if anybody wants to disagree, or to exercise the right of reply, they can do so. Preferably not anonymously.
So, over to you.
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27 comments:
Well said Marie.
Who tells a book reviewer to stop reviewing books if he gives some of them bad reviews?
And come on y'all, it's just a TV show. Let's all be friends.
In Journey's End's defence, three of my colleagues admitted to crying at several points (they were moved, not in pain) during it. What's more:
- German Daleks ("Exterminiren!"
- Donna and the Doctor impersonating each other
- K9! What up, dawg.
- Donna happy
- the dark edge of the Doctor ending up alone, without Rose, and Donna being back to not being special
- some fantastic innuendos
I didn't enjoy the episode overall either, but let's big up episodes too, even if they aren't our favourites.
Well put Sis.
Bro
PS - I also liked the Cat Nuns!
Good rally - especially considering some of the pretty nauseously critical anons c. comment no. 40 in your previous post. Sheesh.
Anonymous commenters are cowardy custards! Bloggers who review are publishing their opinions publicly and, 99% of the time, without hiding behind aliases.
Let's face it, anyone who anonymously slags off you, or your review, is doing it because they love the show unconditionally and lack the imagination and perspective to accept that maybe other people have a different point of view.
And I don't quite understand why some of them seem to think you are being "personally insulting" to RTD and the other writers. You've written things to the effect of "I think that RTD's plotting in this episode wasn't very good". That's not personal criticism, that's justifiable critiquing of his output.
Anonymous bloggers are petty, jealous idiots. If they weren't they'd have the balls to publish their names and a link to their own blogs so they would be open to peer review...
Good rally, as lisa rullsenberg puts it. I just think it's a shame you're put in a position where you feel you have to defend your valid criticisms of a show that's still clearly a favourite. I've always endeavoured to be balanced with my reviews, such as they are, and I've still had people tell me they just don't understand what my problem is. Sometimes I think they only read the complaints and lose sight of the rest. (Although I will openly and unashamedly admit that when it came to Journey's End, it was pretty much all complaint ;) - but that's far from being always the case.)
So again, well said, even if really, you needn't have said anything.
Well, I suppose the debate about what is or what is not acceptable in a review is an interesting and worthy one, but personally, I'm wondering wha the point is in rewarding "Anonymous" with any sort of response at all. For all his/her postulating about critical responsibility, each and every one of her/his comments has been a personal attack. I think his/her comments should be ignored, or, even better, deleted. S/he is not engaging in debate; s/he is trolling. The correct response to a review with which you disagree is: "I think you're mistaken and this is why...", not "Your opinion is typical of all online commentators/English people/women/etc.". That's not fair comment, that's abuse. Anonymous needs to find another sandbox.
+4
Oops. Wrong mailing list.
[this is good] is what I actually meant.
Plus there's always the alternative if it's ever needed.
(Just to add, I've since glanced through read some of Anonymous' comments and maybe something did have to be said after all. On the other hand, Persephone's right: ignore/delete is probably the best response... but for your own peace of mind it's probably worth stating your case, even if it will make no impression on the likes of Anonymous.)
In conclusion, then, *applause* for your measured response, much more than Anonymous deserves, but good for you. :)
yes, very well said!
i'm a fair newbie here - never commented before (was never actually intending to, though that's absolutely no reflection on your blog!) - but as a fan of Doctor Who, who only ever watches it with my other (equally grown-up) half, in a relaxed, losing-ourselves kind of fashion, i have come to thoroughly enjoy reading not only your thoughts and opinions the following week, Marie, but those of your readers too, whether i agree with them or not!
Something else i would like to mention while here, just fyi.... i clicked on the NYT review and i couldn't quite reach the end of it (i just don't care enough about what they are saying!), but i read enough to impel me towards a popular online audiobook seller, where i was happy to see GBB listed (unabridged, no less - hoorah!) and i have now purchased it. just goes to show what a so-called bad review can do! :D
and finally, i also liked the cat-nuns! see.. we're all coming out the woodwork now!!
Marie, you just keep on reviewing. Even without watching the series, I love reading your reviews. They are great all on their lonesomes. The reason I don't see the series is due to not living in your neck of the woods and we don't have a television, and only the old series sans DT in on DVD, which we got just so that I can say I sort of know what Dr. Who is all about.
Well said, Marie. I'm kind of with Persephone, trolls should be ignored. But on the other hand, this is your blog and you are entitled to say whatever you damned well want here. I suspect that given just how much this episode has polarised people RTD must have known some people wouldn't like it: I HATE IT (how can you call yourself a Dr Who fan and hate it?) /I LOVE IT (how can you call yourself a Dr Who fan and love it?) are comments I have read everywhere for the last couple of days. Apart from having the slightly bemused response of CHILL people, it is only a TV show (one I happen to love, but nonetheless, it's a programme for kids).
Marie is right, anyone who puts their creative babies into the public domain (and I speak as one who discovered online someone hated my book so much they ripped it up!! My fault for googling my name) has to expect that some people aren't going to like it. You have to toughen up if you work in a creative capacity and have the humility to accept criticism. RTD got 50% of the audience share on Saturday night. Do you think he REALLY cares if some people didn't like it?
So, I learn: - only named bloggers can comment on other named bloggers. I guess in the same way that only programme makers can comment on prog... Oh. Oh, well, on we go. I learn that the desire to be supportive can blind you to fact (pt - 'you've written things to the effect of 'I think RTD's plotting in this episode isn't very good.' Well, no. The words I picked up on were 'insulting', pathetic' and 'unforgiveable.' Bit of a difference there.) I learn that Mediumrob doesn't think there's anything on his review blog that is personally vicious (funniest lesson so far). I learn that commenting on the extreme critical language someone uses means I 'lack the imagination and perspective to accept that maybe other people have a different point of view.' (actually, that's just knocked MediumRob off the no. 1 spot for funniest lesson). Woman who Talked too Much - the choice isn't simply 'To Review or not To Review'. The choice is whether you comment in a mocking, abusive or puerile way - or not. But bless you all, you've all got your collective gang danders up now. So, have fun! Byeee!
PS ooh - there's more than one Anon. I know some people here would love to think there's a single uber-troll, and dismiss comments thusly, but no. Sorry to disappoint.
I think this particular Anon missed one of the crucial parts of Marie's post: this is a blog. It's her blog. She's allowed to say what the hell she likes. In the way she likes. Because it's her brain and her opinions. That's what blogs are for. If you don't like it, don't read it. Don't come back and anonymously troll!
And you know what? I doubt RTD gives a tiny rat's ass if we're bitching. He brought back Doctor Who and has made many of us love it for the first time or made us fall in love again. The fact that so many of us have emotional, visceral reactions to what we perceive as a dodgy episode is testament to what he did in resurrecting the Doctor when most people thought all the regenerations had been (metaphorically) used up. He's made a show that people talk about. So what if sometimes the talk is annoyed? (Incidentally: "mocking" and "puerile"? Them's mighty big words to hide behind.)
"so conventionally constructed that it suggests the help of fiction-writing software"
Classical form, classical subject matter - what could be more fitting?
Oh, and the Vintage ed cover is a big improvement on the HB/US ed they've got on the NY Times site there I think.
Loved the book, couldn't care less about trolly comments, please keep up your well-written blog, it's a joy to read.
I would like to point out that my comment wasn't against you writing bad reviews. Of course its your blog, your opinion, and you're allowed to write whatever the hell you want. I was just failing to understand why you continued to watch it, and then pull it apart, if you have such low opinions of the programme. After reading this post I understand it a bit more; you've watched it in the past, you've loved it in the past, you continue to watch it hoping you'll carry on liking what you see. I get that now. I still think you're ruining things for yourself (and not just you here - i also refer to your readers who comment on your reviews along the same vein)by approaching ENTERTAINMENT in the manner that you do, but i also understand you are approaching it from a reviewer's perspective so will, as you said so yourself, be looking out for positive and negative points to comment on. Maybe I am over simplifying things by arguing that it should be enjoyed for what it is - when I watch, with my family, we enjoy the craziness, the campness and the visual spectacle of it all, we try and figure out what the hell is going on, the kids try and get their tongues around the big words, and so on and so forth. I suppose I feel that reading your critical reviews of something I have enjoyed as entertaining viewing then spoils it for me. But then I don;t have to read what you;ve written.
Opinions. Such tricky things.
I was just failing to understand why you continued to watch it, and then pull it apart, if you have such low opinions of the programme.
Well, the point is contained within your comment, Jen (which, I think, is a thoughtful comment, even the bits with which I don't agree); most of us here love the series, but a number of us didn't like the episode, or we liked bits of it, but really couldn't stand other bits of it. I'm not sure how that constitutes "ruining things" for ourselves. I know I'm not the only one who avoids the blogs until I've seen the episode, and formed my own opinion of it. I get the impression that you think if we just relax and let ourselves enjoy it, we'll be able to ignore the parts that bug us. I don't think it works that way. That would be like my trying to relax and enjoy asparagus. I just don't, no matter how much I relax. I do, however, enjoy most vegetables, just as I enjoy most episodes of Doctor Who.
A good fight always gets the blog stats up. Nothing wrong in that.
I'm all in favour of anonymous reviewing - there's a great tradition, after all (Edinburgh Review and TLS had some classics, back in the day).
But...is anonymous RTD? Doubt it somehow, but I like the idea.
I suspect the real RTD would take Marie's comments on the chin, even the unforgiveability remark, etc etc. Because her reviews engage with his work in an informative, passionate, and entertaining way. Even when she's profoundly wrong (but let's not go there)
Ah yes Scott - the secret is, *I* am Anon... Nah. But neither is RTD.
Jen, something in your comment really struck me - I think there is a big difference between watching Doctor Who with your family and watching it by yourself. I imagine if I had kids and watched with them, I would get more carried away, and my response would be more guided by their enjoyment. There's definitely something more magical about episodes that I watch with my nieces and nephews. And your opinion is always welcome here Jen!
Anyway, thanks for all the support guys. It is much appreciated, as always.
I think most things have already been but i shall just say Well said Marie.
Also, i liked the cat nuns too.
There is nothing wrong with Cat Nuns. What's not to like? They're cats! And nuns!
You have a perfect right to review whatever you want, however you want, on your own blog. And even when I don't agree with your opinions, I enjoy the writing.
Jen, I can see where you're coming from. Dr Who is cult family viewing in my house, and my pleasure in it has certainly been enhanced by being able to watch with my children. But usually how it goes is my husband and the oldest spot all the flaws, whilst myself and the middle two spend the whole time saying, Sssh, and the youngest irritates everyone by chatting through it.
Having said all that, I think there is nothing wrong with then putting a critical head on and analysing and discussing what you thought about a given episode either on your own blog or other people's. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. I generally take Dr Who for what it is: a kids programme which I loved as a child and which has been reinvented so well that I now love it as an adult. But it doesn't mean to say I have to love everything about it. And I don't. Especially what happened to Rose.
And Anon, if you are still knocking about, I think it is perfectly legitimate to criticise something which you like, when it doesn't live up to your expectations of it. If I were RTD I'd be delighted that so many people are discussing my work so passionately. That's the ultimate accolade for a writer. For f*** sake 9.4 MILLION people watched it. They're not all going to like it.
On Marie's wider point about reviewing or not reviewing, to me part of the joy of the blogosphere is finding people whose experiences on a whole manner of issues either chime in with mine or don't. For example I'm interested in politics and regularly go on a blog which doesn't share my political persuasions. It's not just (for me) a case of knowing my enemy, but actually an interesting intellectual exercise, in rehearsing the other side of the argument and (I hope) learning what makes my political opponents tick. I find that endlessly fascinating, and rather wonderful that thanks to the internet we can all now communicate with people in all walks of life and discuss all manner of things which we couldn't before.
I come to this blog often, and I have learnt that Marie is just as passionate about Dr Who as I am, but we don't always agree about episodes we like. Which is fine and fun, as this debate has been. Leaving anonymous comments is everyone's prerogative, but it seems a shame not to engage in the conversation properly, as everyone else does.
I suppose some of my stuff could be interpreted as nasty if you're on the receiving end. I did say Freema Agyeman's acting talent was now near zero after being leeched away by an alien husk, for example.
But I've been tussling with the issue for a while now and there's no easy way round the problem: how do you say someone's performances are universally bad in a way that's neither offensive nor boring? You could probably write an academic treatise, complete with footnotes and references, that didn't say a single thing that could be interpreted as bad and was embracing and inclusive – and no one would read it. You could decide only to mention the positives – and it would be equally boring. It also wouldn't be very useful to anyone since it wouldn't be very truthful and I think the average reader would feel the review was either untrustworthy or a betrayal in some way.
So how do you say in a nice way an actor can't act? Do you just come straight to the point and say they can't ask? Do you say they could act, given half a chance, but right now they can't? Do you say they'd be a good actor if they went back to drama school? All of them will in one way or another offend. And by the 13th time you'd said, everyone would be bored (again) or think you're taking the p*ss anyway.
Generally, I hope the hyperbole and exaggeration when I do state a negative point makes it OTT enough that it doesn't seem too personal (it's something that seems to work for Charlie Brooker, for example). But I try never to make the criticism personal rather than about someone's actions - so I don't think there's anything wrong with stating that someone's acting talent is somewhat lacking, their performance was bad or that something they'd written is stupid; but there'd definitely be a problem with calling the actor or writer ugly, stupid, etc. I think that's really the cut-off point between criticism and abuse for me.
And I, for one, think Marie is on the right side of the line on this one.
As for the divide on "just enjoying" v being critical, I sometimes watch programmes with my wife, sometimes I don't and it doesn't seem to make me think more or less critically about the show. What probably separates the two groups is whether you discuss the programme much afterwards (or if you're paid to write about it, like me). The blogosphere is similar to the water cooler/smoking room/pub/first thing in the morning chat about what you watched last night. If you don't talk about it in those situations, you probably can just enjoy it, because you're not being asked to come up with a critical opinion.
Personally, I think most blog conversations - at least the ones I frequent, such as Marie's - are probably more civilised than some of the things that emerge in the average pub or work discussion and a good deal more coherent. They're just more visible and anyone from the adjacent pub table – or even adjacent pub – can join in.
Now things have calmed down a bit, you all sound more reasonable. Which is nice. I think some of WWTTM's comments about watching Who with small people are insightful, and get the point more than a lot of the comment gang do. Mediumrob, you are *hilarious* - "But I try never to make the criticism personal rather than about someone's actions"... do you ever READ what you write? Or does it just come streaming out? At least try going back and RE-reading your stuff before you flap your gums. And have you ever read CBrooker on why the internet doesn't work for debate? Cos what he describes is almost *exactly* what's happening here. Also loving this: "The blogosphere is similar to the water cooler/smoking room/pub/first thing in the morning chat about what you watched last night." No, it's not. Cos then you can't hold the floor for hours on end, banging on about your own views. You might have to instantly encounter and deal with some relativism about your own perspective. You might have to accept that in that environment, you don't get to shout the loudest the longest. Social interaction's tough, isn't it? Scott Pack - yeah, a good spat does get the stats up. A smack in the mouth also gets attention. Doesn't make it good in itself. pt - bless your cottons: "Anonymous bloggers are petty, jealous idiots. If they weren't they'd have the balls to publish their names and a link to their own blogs so they would be open to peer review..." oh, pt. Lovely as it is to read your balanced view of dissent - some people don't have blogs. I know! Whole crazy world out there! Run! janehenry - you seem sensible. But: - "... Anon, if you are still knocking about, I think it is perfectly legitimate to criticise something which you like, when it doesn't live up to your expectations of it." Yes, Jane. Of course. As I responded to WWTTM, it's not that you CAN'T respond, far from it. It's just that you don't have to be vicious, sneering, snide or bitchy. Of course teh interwebs is great for finding other POVS and opinions. You seem to be mishearing me - I ain't saying, shut up, you have no right to say what you think. I'm saying - don't be a bitch. And let me clarify further. Bagelmouse types: "so many of us have emotional, visceral reactions to what we perceive as a dodgy episode." Sure. But don't use that as an excuse for being a bitch. You ask any kid at school why he hit another kid, and you get: "Cos he made me. Cos he deserved it. Cos he wound me up." etc. Are you saying you only hit Who because you love it? Only you are responsible for what you say. And emotional, visceral reactions are great. You then have a choice about how you express them. And in fact - at least WWTTM has gone some way towards looking at what she says and how, not just jumping into a defensive 'you can't tell me what to say!' reaction. The best way I can put WWTTM's responses in perspective is - online reviewing/opinion blogging is tough. If you're not more extreme, or elaborately critical, or inventively insulting than the next blogreview, then you'll just disappear. It's just a *shame* that it has to be that way. I quite like Charlie Brooker (really liked his BBC 4 shows), but I can't bear his pale imitations. Honestly, find your own voice. And lo - does he do much debate on teh interwebs?? NO - he's making tv programmes. Creating, not commenting. Makes me laugh. But really - can you not see the difference between someone saying 'you have no right to speak!' and someone saying 'you can say what you like, so why not be adult about it?'?
Anon, I think it is all a question of perspective. I personally didn't find anyone here being vicious, snide, sneering or bitchy. You clearly did. I thought people were being adult in their responses. You clearly didn't. To me this has been a lively debate with people sharing robust views at times. You seem to see it as people making personal attacks on a tv programme. To each their own, but I think if you stick around long enough you'll see everyone who comes here are very reasonable.
(If you want really unreasonable reactions go on some of the Dr Who chat rooms where emotions seem to be flying high on both sides of the debate.)
Like I said, if I were RTD I'd be really grateful that I'd produced a programme that was causing such impassioned reactions.
Check out RTD's July 7th Guardian article, its online. This should disabuse you of the notion that he really enjoys all this stuff - or more bafflingly, is 'grateful' for it.
From my interpretation of the article he seems to enjoy the debate. I happen to be a fan of his, but that doesn't mean to say I can't occasionally criticise. And I DO think it is a fantastic accolade for a writer to have so many people impassioned about your work even if they dont' all like all of it all of the time. I've posted on my blog that the last episode has inspired my six year old to write her own version of Dr Who, and also entered into an interesting discussion about genocide. How many programmes do that? Not many. I am sure however successful you are criticism is hard, but RTD has brought back a classic and rejuvenated it for a new generation. I think he should be able to rise above the mosquitoes.
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