Sorry, it's another feminist one. Just coincidence that it's two in a row.
Dr Denis Walsh, one of the country's most senior midwives, has published a paper saying that fewer women ought to have epidurals. Here's the piece about it in the Observer. I am not a doctor or a midwife, and I have never given birth (although I am somewhat more likely to do so than Doctor Walsh), and so I will not comment on what he writes about risk factors such as lengthening the labour process, the positioning of the baby's head, increased need for interventions etc. No doubt he is right about those. Indeed the risks are well-known and several of my friends have chosen not to have pain relief during their labour because of those risks. I entirely support them in that choice. But note: "chosen". "Choice".
No, what I want to take up with Dr Walsh is the following:
"A large number of women want to avoid pain. Some just don't fancy the pain. More women should be prepared to withstand pain... Pain in labour is a purposeful, useful thing, which has quite a number of benefits, such as preparing a mother for the responsibility of nurturing a newborn baby.
"Over recent decades there has been a loss of 'rites of passage' meaning to childbirth, so that pain and stress are viewed negatively." Patients should be told that labour pain is a timeless component of the "rites of passage" transition to motherhood... Pain prepares women for the demands of motherhood.
This is guff. The reason childbirth huts so much has got nothing to do with rites of passage and priming women for motherhood. Labour pain is biological, it's like any other pain. If you look at the evolution of apes into hominids (and I have studied this at degree level), one of the key differences is that humans are bipedal (walk upright) and apes walk in a knuckle-drag stance. This is made possible by the unique positioning of our hips - in line with our torsoes, not out to the sides. Because of this, human labour is much more complex, painful and difficult than ape labour. In fact studies show that in you examine monkey and ape gestation, for a human baby to be born at equivalent development, size and alertness, it should have a gestational period of one year. However, the size of the baby would make it impossible for it to come out of the human birth canal without killing the mother. On the other hand, if a baby is born too small, it will have all the complications of prematurity, leading to a huge increase in infant mortality. A human baby, gestated for nine months, is as large as it can be without killing the mother: it's an evolutionary compromise.
So back to this crap about preparing women for the responsibility of childbirth: that is not what labour pain is "for". Labour pain isn't "for" anything. It's just pain. Do people really think that if women have pain relief they are more likely to mistreat their children? Think about the people you know who've had epidurals: is this remotely true? And how should we prepare men for the awesome responsibility of having a baby? Knee them repeatedly in the nuts over several hours? Or do we think they are capable of being responsible and loving parents without undergoing extensive pain? The latter, obviously.
In short, giving birth hurts because you are pushing something out of your vagina which is the exact largest it can be without tearing you in half. Make your decisions about pain relief in accordance with advice over medical risk, but please, do not allow yourself to be bullied into a natural birth because of this misguided emotional blackmail.
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28 comments:
quite right - and you didn't even mention our big heads.
People have a very romantic view of nature, they think if it is natural then it is right, but what you have to remember is that evolution does not create perfect solutions. Survival of the fittest is a misnomer, a more accurate but less snappy phrase would be survival of the organism that is able to function well enough to reproduce.
Well enough - we are a bodge job and the process of giving birth is the most bodged bit of a the Homo sapien.
I've always maintained that if men gave birth caesarian section would be a legal requirement.
When I was having first baby was terrified about it, on basis of scary vid I was shown at school. Was bullied by NCT into thinking if I had an epidural it was the end of the world, and consequently when labour didn't go to plan (there's a surprise now, you cannot "plan" a labour) and had epidural ended up feeling a failure. Am sure my subsequent inability to bond with her straight away was a result. It makes me hopping mad when MALE doctors who are never going to do it talk such crap. When people talk about the pain being natural etc, I always say, well you wouldn't have your appendix out naturally would you?
I had two hideous labours, one okish one and the last one thankfully was wonderful. But get this. The reason it was so good was because I had shouted so loudly about the fact I had no pain relief at all with the third till I was a total mess, they paid attention when I demanded gas and air. Consequently, I felt in charge of the pain throughout. I could feel contractions coming and thanks to pethadine - wonder drug, I'd thoroughly recommend it - also could "see" pain as a bright dot going over hills in front of me. When it reached the top of hill I knew I was on the way out of the contraction and therefore much better able to deal with the pain. What women in labour need to know is that they CAN control the pain with the right pain relief, an understanding midwife, and the knowledge that as they are the ones feeling this pain, they have the right to make choices about what help they need in dealing with it.
They do not need silly pricks telling them it's natural so they should put up with it. Yes, the pain of second stage labour is part of the process, as each contraction physically helps you push the baby out, but that is no reason for making women suffer unnecessarily. Grrr!!!!
(sorry for rant, as you can see, you've touched a nerve).
Incidentally, short term non bonding with first baby has not resulted in long term non bonding. Women are still made to feel ridiculously guilty about all aspects of pregnancy, childbirth, and child rearing. Most of it is crap, as in the main the majority of mums are doing it just fine without any help from so called "experts"
I have been present at two births and they both seemed to hurt like billyo to me.
After 30 hours of labour with just gas and air the doctors basically said 'you really need an epidural, you have no energy left'. Fair enough.
Baby two was a comparitively swift 24 hour labour with just gas and air and a really big bath.
Thanked my lucky stars that I was a bloke for every minute of those 54 hours.
Tremendous post Marie, couldn't agree more and also thanks for the very clear evolutionary explanation. I'd like to see the scientific evidence for the argument that pain prepares you for motherhood: do any studies show that adoptive mothers are worse parents? I'd be astonished if they did.
Kimire. No amount of pain could prepare you for motherhood. Trust me (-:
Gee, I got to have the horrendous labour pain and the epidural afterward. What does that make me? Both my kids were emergency C-sections, and I was informed that I would be given a "trial by labour" (sounds fun, doesn't it?) for the second one, despite the fact I was four years older, had "failed to progress" with elder daughter (reason for both C-sections), and was struggling with gestational diabetes (complete with insulin needles) for the second. This didn't prevent them from interfering with the so-called natural process by inducing me a week ahead of time for my younger daughter (which didn't work, so my GP broke my waters resulting in excruciating labour pain).
People will tell you that with the proper technique and breathing, pain will be minimized. I think the fact is (and there have been studies supporting this) that the intensity of "discomfort" (as they put it) is in direct correlation to the intensity of one's menstrual cramps. You have a hard time every month? Sorry, your labour is probably going to blow your socks off. I did the technique and the breathing; it does help in that you don't completely lose it and panic. But, Good Gawd, Dr. Denis, most women I know are way braver about physical pain than most men I know. If a woman chooses the epidural over the pain (and I didn't even have the choice; the C-section made it necessary), don't beat her up about it. Childbirth is like a wedding in that what happened on the day turns out to be far less important than the years of effort that follow. And there will be plenty more opportunities for pain, believe me.
If Dr Denis was a Dr Denise I would still tell him to insert an enormous watermelon up his ass so that he can experience labour in reverse before telling women that pain is good. He's probably an Opus Dei member, too. He's certainly a member.
Anna May x
Is there a breathing technique for when you read such utter tosh as this? For I fear I'm hyperventilating... This makes me so furious. A friend of mine who gave birth recently was all set to have an epidural until a no-pain-relief Nazi (yes yes yes, Godwin's Law and all that) came into her pre-natal class and put the fear of god into her. As a result, she was determined to do it on gas and air, but the labout took so long and was so hard she was screaming for drugs, but was then told it was 'too late'. And as for epidurals slowing things down - the midwife was confident the baby would be out by time xx.xxam; she actually arrived 90 minutes later. All that time in final stage labour with just gas and air - just how is an exhausted woman supposed to bond with her baby? (I should also add: my Mum had an epidural when she was having me, and her entire labour lasted less than 9 hours AND I was breech.)
It makes me furious to my very core to hear anyone - male or female - berate women for taking advantage of modern advances to make their life easier, so they're more capable of handling the chaos of the next few months. Each birth is different, you cannot attempt to dictate to women what they should do, as though it's a straightforward procedure every time. It's yet another stick to beat women with, another thing to make them feel guilty, another idealised fantasy imposed on them (us). The women I know who've had children have been shocked at how little truth is told around pregnancy, childbirth and caring for babies, and how impossible the standards are to live up to. Which is why I need the fricking gas mask when I read horse crap like this...
Well said! Dr. Denis may be a very knowledgeable and reputable midwife but he obviously needs more education - on so many levels. I have no doubt this guy is so utterly oblivious that he would equate the pain a woman goes through in childbirth to that of what a man goes through when passing a kidney stone. Personally, I like Annamay's suggestion with the watermelon. Now that is my kind of educating.
I honestly don't know if the pain some (okay, most) women experience during labour serves any purpose. But I think you can only hope for your best birth (whatever that is), and be prepared for the worst.
I don't agree with Dr. Dennis, but at the same time I'm always concerned by mothers stating categorically " I'm going to have an epidural!" - How do you know? How do you know that an anaesthetist will be available at the time? That the labour wont go too fast for one?
It seems to me that women should be taught about the (admittedly few) women who have ecstatic, orgasmic births, as well as those who need medication; and most of all the majority of women who just get on with it (and usually make moo-ing cow-like noises, not the shrieking you see on TV!)
My experience of epidurals is that they are pretty horrible, and I'm always surprised by people who request them before they even know if their labour is going to be painful!
Technically, a human baby is as large as it can be and only kill (IIRC) one in four mothers without the intervention of modern medical techniques and procedures, which is what the fatality of childbirth used to be. Evolution, not having an end-point in sight, has merely come up with a compromise that doesn't kill off the entire species, only no more women than is necessary for the species to survive successfully.
Maybe Dr Denis is a muslim (IIRC labour pains are supposed to be a good thing in Islam since they bring you closer to God or something, but I may be misremembering quite severely there) or a fundamentalist Christian or Jew who believes labour pains are God's continuing punishment for women for getting everyone kicked out of Eden and y'all shouldn't be let off the hook thanks to 'witchcraft' (aka 'science') coming up with things like pain relief. I suspect not though, and that he might be talking out of his midhusband arse, without even religion to back him up.
I seem to remember also evolution also expects women to give birth standing up and some of the pain comes from lying down, since gravity can't help out anymore, which is one of the reason's birthing pools are a good idea, allegedly. I have no way to verify this. Do not use me as the basis for future life choices.
As for who feels pain more - men or women - I can only refer you to J Pain. 2009 May; 10(5): 447–485. "Sex, Gender, and Pain: A Review of Recent Clinical and Experimental Findings" - 'Abundant evidence from recent epidemiologic studies clearly demonstrates that women are at substantially greater risk for many clinical pain conditions, and there is some suggestion that postoperative and procedural pain may be more severe among women than men. Consistent with our previous reviews, current human findings regarding sex differences in experimental pain indicate greater pain sensitivity among females compared with males for most pain modalities, including more recently implemented clinically relevant pain models such as temporal summation of pain and intramuscular injection of algesic substances.' I can't really add to that, for some reason.
I couldn't agree with you more, Marie! I was completely gobsmacked at this doctor's words when I read them this morning. Good on you!
Terrific post, Marie. Might I join the boo-ing chorus?
Thanks to medical intervention, my first birthing experience did not result in my being one of MediumRob's one in four maternal fatalities (big head, brow presentation, no way was the watermelon coming out of THAT particular exit). I had an emergency caesarian section under general anaesthetic. I can thoroughly recommend it - go to sleep, wake up, baby's there. Bingo. I loved him unreservedly (reservations only kicking in around the teenage years).
Although I did want to experience more of the actual labouring malarkey with my second, I was conscious that having had one caesarian gave me a 50% chance of having another one, so I insisted on an epidural to save having another general and missing out on all the fun. Sure enough, my daughter was nice and cosy in there and did not want to come out (we only found out later that her reluctance might have had something to do with the fact that the umbilical cord was wrapped tightly round her neck, so that every contraction strangled her). So another caesarian, but this time under epidural.
Even had I survived that first pregnancy, neither of my children would have survived without modern science.
Of course, one could argue that we have bucked the 'survival of the fittest' rule and that mankind will rue the day it allowed my weak genes to contaminate the gene pool. Aha! Perhaps Dr Denis is a secret eugenicist?
Tried to comment yesterday but perhaps recognising my ranty outrage the internet exploded and my remark was lost.
This morning I was listening to the radio talking to said Dr Denis. I'm now aware of where he works and this is NOT helping me be in a good mood.
What Anna May said about him being a member? Loud applause.
"People have a very romantic view of nature, they think if it is natural then it is right, but what you have to remember is that evolution does not create perfect solutions."
That's probably a better way of putting it than I could have thought of.
As a vegan, I get a whole load of people attacking various actual and hypothetical moral choices I might make on the basis of what supposedly is and isn't natural.
The way I figure it, when you're considering embarking on a particular action or actions, the questions you should ask are:
1) Will this action work, fully, and without problems?
2) Is this action moral?
I think that the question of whether or not the action is "natural" should generally only be used as a tie-breaker, to determine between otherwise equal courses of action.
But it amazes me how many people seem to think that: "natural" = good and "unnatural" = bad.
I sometimes try to point out to them that in the animal kingdom, it's "natural" for "step-fathers" to kill their "step-children" (if a younger male lion drives off an older lion and takes over the older lion's former pride, the first thing he will do is kill any cubs, as for him to care for them would be an evolutionary dead end).
But the belief that natural = good is often so deeply ingrained in them that when I say that, they conclude that I'm declaring that it's okay for step-fathers to kill their step-children, and the conversation often goes sharply downhill from there.
I should probably think of a different debating tactic. :)
As you know sis, I am in total agreement with you and it's good to see the general consensus here. Women should be educated and supported so that they make the right choice for themselves. Women should not be made to feel guilty for choosing to relieve the intense pain of childbirth, and indeed the guilt is now piled on from pre-conception (are you eating right, exercising right, what about that folic acid), through pregnancy (ibid), birth, feeding (breast or bottle), child-rearing and on forever more. Give us a break.
As for medical intervention, I am pretty sure that the epidural I chose for my first labour allowed me to give birth to Joaquim naturally, for without it - and thanks to his back-down position, unusually large head, and tangled cord - I would have been so exhausted at the end of the 17 hours that there's no way I could have pushed him out.
Physical pain does not prepare you for the tough job that is parenting. Pregnancy and birth fade into insignificance next to the experience of rearing your family. A positive birth experience, with or without pain relief, is a great thing, but is not everything. Ladies, feel free to choose and feel comfortable with your choice, no-one else is going to do this for you.
You can imagine my reaction to this article yesterday. I suspect the downstairs neighbours are aware of it too.
Marie, I totally agree.
I've been present for about fifty or so births (I was a student midwife for three years, and when I left I ended up finishing a degree in Anthropology - coincidentally) and while I do have a lot of problems with the way care is offered these days in maintstream obstetrics I am totally disgusted by Dr Walsh's comments. How on earth can labour pain POSSIBLY have anything to do with preparing anyone for anything other than total exhaustion!? What a stupid thing to say.
I am no fan of pushing drugs in cases where what is really needed is education, support and encouragement. As you say, there are lots of concerns with epidurals and I think those concerns get downplayed a lot. However. HOWEVER. Once again, I am totally in agreement with you... it's all about choice. Women have the right to make the choices that work for them without any guilt or fluffy talk of "rites of passage" from professionals. Not to mention all of the times that epidurals really and truly are necessary.
What I saw missing most of all in obstetrics was time and good, clear communication. During prenatal visits women need the time to actually talk to their care providers. I'm not sure how it works in other places, but here in Canada an average prenatal visit with a doctor can last around 5 minutes (after an average wait of 3 hours!) and I saw questions or concerns often given cursory, dismissive answers. In my opinion what is needed most is accesible education and real support for whatever unfolds in the unpredictable event that is childbirth, and for the choices that become necessary as a result.
The best advice I got from Sandra at work was that 'Giving birth is like sh*tting a melon'.
I was booked in for an induction and would have asked for an epidural, but that morning it all happened naturally in under six hours from first contraction to popping out - no time for any pain relief except gas and air. By the way, Sandra was right!
Thought you might like to see this: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/women-to-force-hat_stand-into-anus-of-male-midwife-200907131899/. Of course, I don't condone violence...
ha ha - for some reason I thought of you when I read this article yesterday. Just a couple of things to add. I think in Europe (certainly Italy and Greece) most women have C-sections or epidurals as making women endure the pain is seen as being inhumane.
Secondly - Dr Walsh is a midwife, epidurals can only be given by anesthetists - I suspect this is something to do with the ongoing war between doctors and midwives.
Kate
A friend of mine has pointed me at a very well written article, written from a feminist perspective, that basically sets out the defence for Doctor Walsh. It does make quite a convincing case, and also points out that what we are reading is newspapers' interpretations of what he said, which might not quite be what he said.
Anyhow, as someone who has critised him in a number of venues, I thought it only fair that I post a link to "the defence":
http://jonnynexus.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=273&message=6
I think you mean:
http://feministphilosophers.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/a-brief-defence-of-my-current-hero-denis-walsh/
Interesting, but there's still 'that quote'
On a similar theme, here is a piece about whether women should be allowed to opt for an elective c-section:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8057785.stm
That's an interesting one. Women who want to have an elective c are dubbed "too posh to push" and certainly having a caesarian is not an easy or uncomplicated operation, but if women know the risks, would prefer it, and if it costs the same as a natural birth (I don't know - does it?) then why not? Is it because it's "unnatural"?
Maybe they're worried about the 'MacDuff effect'?
For which is more expensive: elective Caesarian versus 'Trial of Labour' (with possible emergency Caesarian), NICE - which works out these things, of course - cites a decade-old Australian study which concludes:
"Although trial of labour was more expensive if the result was an emergency CS, high rates of successful vaginal delivery mean that, overall, trial of labour was found to be 30% less expensive than elective CS. It was estimated that trial of labour remains the most cost-effective option as long as less than 68% of women require emergency CS"
http://www.crd.york.ac.uk/crdweb/ShowRecord.asp?View=Full&ID=21998007697
How valid the study is for the UK 10 years on, particularly since it leaves a few things out of the cost, is a different matter.
As regards 'too posh to push', there is some validity to that: BJOG. 2005 Jul;112(7):994-6 "Investigating the relationship between affluence and elective caesarean sections." says:
"Logistic regression modelling was used to analyse data from half a million women who delivered in English NHS hospitals between 1996 and 2000. We found that women living in the most affluent areas of England were significantly more likely to have an elective caesarean section than their deprived counterparts."
But there could be many, many reasons for that, as you point out Marie.
I think you mean:
Erm... yes. That would be the one. I'd claim to not understand computers, but that would be a bit difficult, what with me being a computer programmer.
:)
Thank you for correcting me!
This is a bit Doctor v Midwife - see here for an outraged Doc's response to the idea that somehow avoiding birth pain is some sort of cowardice or cop-out:
http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2006/06/british-midwives-want-moth_114980675263120531.html
Rejoice Britons, somewhere not far away, women are worse off...
In the Netherlands, epidurals are discouraged and women are coaxed into labour at home (with a midwife, who cannot administer gas, TENS, small painkillers, let alone epidurels. She isn't even allowed to do anything when complications arise). What is encouraged: soft music, candles,...aargh. It gets even worse. What often happens is this: a woman arrives at hospital in mid-labour and is carried inside (or tries to walk from the parking lot. I did it, 10 cms dilated, scaring passers-by into childless futures while crying for painkillers). She is either to far dilated to receive an epidural or, it's after six (possibly a weekend even, how dare she!!) and everyone who can administer drugs, has left the building!
Yes, in Holland we have high survival rates for childbirth. However, mums-to-be have only a real choice if they (and the dads-to-be) dare to stand up to their midwife, someone you should be able to trust and should have your best interests at heart.
PS in recent years, Dutch blokes have become quite chivalrous in taking on the midwives-lobby. Women, as soon as the're mums, are often true champions of the medieval fairytale of natural and painful-no-matter-what childbirth.
So please, do not let doctors like Denis whatshisname bully you in something like we have. Take charge!
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